CTO Series: Mastering the CTPO Role, Katrina Clokie’s Guide to Tech and Product Leadership

CTO Series: Mastering the CTPO Role, Katrina Clokie’s Guide to Tech and Product Leadership

CTO Series: Mastering the CTPO Role, Katrina Clokie’s Guide to Tech and Product Leadership

In this BONUS episode, we sit down with Katrina Clokie, a seasoned leader in strategy, change management, and building inclusive teams. Katrina shares pivotal moments in her career, offers practical leadership insights, and discusses her role as Chief Technology and Product Officer (CTPO), where she’s balancing innovation with business objectives. Whether you’re an aspiring tech leader or looking to sharpen your leadership toolkit, Katrina’s wisdom will inspire you to embrace growth, resilience, and collaboration.

Defining Moments in Leadership

“Look for roles you can’t fully do yet—it’s the best way to grow.”

Katrina reflects on a transformative moment early in her career when a mentor from the shipping industry encouraged her to seek out challenging roles that would push her growth. This advice set her on the path to engineering management and C-level leadership. She shares how fostering curiosity and pursuing conversations about topics she didn’t yet fully understand has kept her continually learning.

“Ask yourself: where do I feel stretched? That’s often where the best growth opportunities lie.”

The Role of CTPO: Combining Technology and Product Strategy

“We needed both a unified vision and an efficient structure to remain competitive.”

Katrina discusses why her company created the CTPO role and how it reflects the size and growth stage of the organization. With no prior head of product, Katrina leaned into her experience while recognizing the importance of partnering with skilled product managers. She emphasizes the importance of having clear accountabilities and embracing growth within the role.

“The key is knowing when to lead and when to lean on your team’s expertise.”

Aligning Tech Strategy with Business Objectives

“Trade-offs are inevitable—make them strategically, not reactively.”

At Fergus, Katrina implemented clear guardrails, such as avoiding a complete rewrite of their decade-old monolith, focusing instead on retiring components that hindered stability and developer experience. She shares how they allocate 60% of engineering capacity to strategic initiatives and 40% to ongoing business needs, ensuring tech and business priorities stay aligned.

“Guardrails help teams make decisions that align with the big picture without constant oversight.”

Fostering Cross-Functional Collaboration

“Healthy conflict is necessary—escalation usually signals a breakdown in structure.”

Katrina describes how she structured cross-functional teams with clear goals and metrics to foster collaboration and ensure diverse perspectives are represented. She highlights the importance of empathy and role-modeling constructive conflict resolution at senior levels.

“A well-designed structure turns potential conflict into productive problem-solving.”

Roadmapping with Flexibility and Focus

“Roadmaps should guide—not handcuff—teams to long-term commitments.”

Katrina’s approach to roadmapping balances transparency and adaptability. By reserving only 60% of capacity for roadmap initiatives and keeping annual plans intentionally light, her teams can pivot when necessary without overcommitting. Frequent, smaller releases (up to 160 changes per month) help deliver value continuously.

“Leave room in your roadmap to handle surprises without derailing progress.”

Scaling Teams During Rapid Growth

“Avoid constant recruiting—it can burn out your leaders and upset team dynamics.”

Drawing from her experience at Xero, Katrina advises against an “always-on” recruitment strategy, which can overwhelm hiring managers and disrupt team cohesion. Instead, she recommends batch hiring and partnering with finance and talent teams to manage hiring budgets in stages.

“Hiring in waves allows teams to stabilize and thrive, rather than constantly adjusting.”

Overcoming the Challenges of Growth and Constraints

“Shifting from hyper-growth to steady growth meant saying ‘no’ more often and being precise.”

Katrina shares how transitioning from an environment of rapid scaling to a more constrained SaaS company required a shift in her approach to decision-making. She focused on making the business context clear to her team, fostering trust and transparency in her decision-making process.

“When people understand the ‘why’ behind constraints, they’re more likely to trust the process.”

Recommended Reads for Tech Leaders

Katrina shares the books that have shaped her leadership journey:

“Great leadership isn’t innate—it’s learned through mentorship, reflection, and resources.”

Scaling Your Influence as a Leader

From her experience at global companies to her current role, Katrina’s insights on transparency, collaboration, and strategic trade-offs provide a blueprint for navigating the complexities of tech leadership.

“Leadership isn’t about having all the answers—it’s about empowering your team and staying open to learning.”

About Katrina Clokie

Katrina Clokie is a respected leader in strategy, change management, and building inclusive teams. A keynote speaker at international conferences, she is passionate about leadership and communication. Her book, A Practical Guide to Testing in DevOps, has reached over 7,000 readers. In 2018, she was a finalist for New Zealand’s Inspiring Individual of the Year Award.

You can link with Katrina Clokie on LinkedIn.

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The Power of "Why", Modeling Coaching Behavior for Agile Teams | Ellen Grove

The Power of "Why", Modeling Coaching Behavior for Agile Teams | Ellen Grove

Ellen Grove: The Power of "Why", Modeling Coaching Behavior for Agile Teams Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Ellen defines success for Scrum Masters as the team developing a stronger sense of agency and self-sufficiency. When teams begin asking better questions and demonstrate ownership of their processes, it indicates growth and maturity. Scrum Masters must model this behavior by being thoughtful, curious, and consistently asking "why" to encourage a coaching mindset. This approach enables teams to think critically and solve problems collaboratively. Self-reflection Question: How can you model the behavior you want to see in your team during retrospectives and beyond? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Retromat Ellen recommends using Retromat, a versatile online tool that provides a variety of retrospective formats to match the specific needs of your team. Ellen values mixing up retrospective formats to keep sessions engaging and contextually relevant. She stresses the importance of paying attention to all steps of a retrospective process, ensuring teams reflect, ideate, and act effectively. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Ellen Grove Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments. You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.

9 Jan 16min

The Dual Work of Agile, Managing Projects and Change Simultaneously | Ellen Grove

The Dual Work of Agile, Managing Projects and Change Simultaneously | Ellen Grove

Ellen Grove: The Dual Work of Agile, Managing Projects and Change Simultaneously Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Ellen shares her insights on managing organizational change effectively. She explains how Scrum and Lean Change Management offer tools to make the "change work" visible alongside project work. By putting infrastructure in place to support this dual focus, stakeholders and teams can gain transparency and clarity. Ellen emphasizes that lasting change requires collaboration and visibility, not isolation. Self-reflection Question: How can you make the "change work" more visible in your organization? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Ellen Grove Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments. You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.

8 Jan 15min

Why Feedback Loops Are Essential for Agile Teams | Ellen Grove

Why Feedback Loops Are Essential for Agile Teams | Ellen Grove

Ellen Grove: Why Feedback Loops Are Essential for Agile Teams Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Ellen shares a story about coaching a team in a public sector enterprise working on a website project. Despite their commitment to Agile, the team’s disconnect from user feedback led them to build features that missed critical functionality. This stealthy anti-pattern—assuming "what should be done and why" without user input—resulted in wasted effort and budget. Ellen emphasizes the importance of direct feedback loops with real users, even for internal products. Self-reflection Question: How can you ensure your team receives continuous feedback from real users to avoid building the wrong product? Featured Book of the Week: Humble Inquiry by Edgar Schein Ellen highlights "Humble Inquiry," a transformative book that stresses the importance of relationships over tasks in solving problems. The book encourages leaders to build trust and respect through better questioning techniques. It challenges readers to rethink their interactions and adopt a stance of curiosity, fostering collaboration and understanding. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Ellen Grove Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments. You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.

7 Jan 14min

Managing Change in Complex Organizational Cultures | Ellen Grove

Managing Change in Complex Organizational Cultures | Ellen Grove

Ellen Grove: Managing Change in Complex Organizational Cultures Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Ellen reflects on her early experiences as a Scrum Master, facing challenges in an environment that resisted the introduction of Scrum. She shares valuable lessons about handling external resistance, managing personal expectations, and avoiding emotional burnout when navigating organizational change. Ellen emphasizes the importance of focusing on what can be influenced and detaching from outcomes beyond one’s control. Self-reflection Question: How do you maintain focus and resilience when dealing with resistance to Scrum in your organization? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Ellen Grove Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments. You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.

6 Jan 14min

Throwing Features Over the Fence, The Disconnected PO | Robert Finan

Throwing Features Over the Fence, The Disconnected PO | Robert Finan

Robert Finan: Throwing Features Over the Fence, The Disconnected PO Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: Fostering Quick Feedback Loops With Story Mapping Robert describes a great Product Owner as someone who immerses themselves in the team, fostering collaboration and ensuring quick market feedback.  By using tools like Story Mapping, these POs help teams focus on value while staying engaged and open to learning. The Bad Product Owner: Throwing Features Over the Fence, The Disconnected PO Bad Product Owners remain distant, throwing requirements “over the fence” without participating in the team’s efforts. This disconnect often leads to misalignment and poor outcomes.  For Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches, Robert suggests investigating the root cause of this distance and addressing it collaboratively. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Robert Finan Robert has been working in IT for over 25 years, with the last decade spent deeply engaged in “messy” real-world Agile transformations. He documents his experiences in the Agile Drill Sergeant webcomic. You can link with Robert Finan on LinkedIn.

3 Jan 14min

Promoting Agile Team Growth Through Experiments And Small Focused Changes | Robert Finan

Promoting Agile Team Growth Through Experiments And Small Focused Changes | Robert Finan

Robert Finan: Promoting Agile Team Growth Through Experiments And Small Focused Changes Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Robert defines Scrum Master success as driving impactful team improvements through small, focused changes.  By maintaining a backlog of improvement ideas and encouraging teams to experiment, Robert highlights the importance of measurable progress in both behavior and collaboration. Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Sailboat Retrospective Robert recommends the Sailboat format, especially when working with new teams. By exploring current realities, future goals, and risks, this format provides rich insights and fosters alignment. The focus on improvement ensures actionable outcomes that resonate with team members. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Robert Finan Robert has been working in IT for over 25 years, with the last decade spent deeply engaged in “messy” real-world Agile transformations. He documents his experiences in the Agile Drill Sergeant webcomic. You can link with Robert Finan on LinkedIn.

2 Jan 14min

Flexible Change Processes, How To Adopt Agile With An Agile Approach | Robert Finan

Flexible Change Processes, How To Adopt Agile With An Agile Approach | Robert Finan

Robert Finan: Flexible Change Processes, How To Adopt Agile With An Agile Approach Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Robert discusses how top-down, project managed Agile transformations often fail to account for the complexity of change. By focusing on flexibility, inspect/adapt cycles, and bringing comfort to the change process, Scrum Masters can guide organizations away from one-size-fits-all solutions and toward the sustainable improvement that is the hallmark of Agile. Self-reflection Question: How can you bring comfort to the change process in your organization? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Robert Finan Robert has been working in IT for over 25 years, with the last decade spent deeply engaged in “messy” real-world Agile transformations. He documents his experiences in the Agile Drill Sergeant webcomic. You can link with Robert Finan on LinkedIn.

1 Jan 12min

Why Agile Teams Need the Right Support, And How We Can Help Them | Robert Finan

Why Agile Teams Need the Right Support, And How We Can Help Them | Robert Finan

Robert Finan: Why Agile Teams Need the Right Support, And How We Can Help Them Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Robert shares a story about what happens when teams lack management support and the right environment to succeed. He emphasizes the importance of 1-on-1 conversations, addressing individual resistance, and focusing on what can be changed. Slowly building the right environment for our teams - Robert explains how - is how we help them succeed! Featured Book of the Week: Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny et al. Robert recommends Crucial Conversations, which offers practical tools for handling high-stakes conversations in both personal and professional contexts. As facilitators, Scrum Masters can use this book to address situations where team members feel threatened, fostering better communication and collaboration. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Robert Finan Robert has been working in IT for over 25 years, with the last decade spent deeply engaged in “messy” real-world Agile transformations. He documents his experiences in the Agile Drill Sergeant webcomic. You can link with Robert Finan on LinkedIn.

31 Dec 202413min

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