Ep 137. To Recognise a Palestinian State

On the 1st of January 2024, BRICS (an international forum of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa), are welcoming in new members to form BRICS+. In this episode, Alex Hall Hall talks with Anjali Bhatt about what the bloc aims to achieve and what the addition of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Ethiopia, Egypt, and the UAE might entail for the organization. They’ll also discuss Argentina’s new disruptive leader, why he might withdraw from BRICS+, and whether the expansion could mean the strengthening of disordering powers (like China).    In the Ordering the Disorder segment, Jason and Alex discuss whether the West should take BRICS+ seriously as a global force, what some of their ideas might mean for global economics, and whether the institution of BRICS+ will function more as an ordering force or more as a disordering one.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/subscribe    Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links  No One Knows What BRICS Expansion Means by Anjali Bhatt here   And for a broader overview of BRICS, its history, and role in the world, pls consult here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

2 Jan 202445min

In our Christmas special, Jason Pack and Alex Hall Hall look back at the first year of the disorder pod, and forecast a bit about the next. They discuss 2024 as a record-breaking year of global elections, answer some listeners’ questions about topics like Central Asia, Gaza, Western hypocrisy, and Palestinian History.    They also share a bit about themselves, their families’ holiday menus, and their escape routes. Like, who knew that Alex likes doing puzzles so much and that Jason is a super fan of the Netflix show Fauda.  During the Ordering the Disorder Segment, they discuss why we urgently need to get the Christmas spirit back into diplomacy.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links  At the start and end of the podcast, we heard some lovely Xmas music from Evoke, a London-based vocal ensemble founded and directed by Victoria Ely. Full credits:  Pat-a-pan: traditional Burgundian carol, arranged by David Conte.  Jingle Bells: arranged by Audrey Snyder  Music performed by Evoke, directed by Victoria Ely  Facebook: www.facebook.com/evokemusicuk  Youtube: www.youtube.com/@evoke1439  Website: www.evokemusic.org/   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

24 Dec 202348min

In this episode, Alex and Jason investigate if major Islamic nations can exercise global leadership over the Israel-Palestine conflict and propose implementable solutions. They also examine the leverage that Arab Gulf States now have over the West, in general, and Britian, in specific. Jason talks to James M. Dorsey, host of the Turbulent World podcast, to investigate three of the principal countries battling simultaneously for leadership of the Islamic World and to set the direction of ‘moderate’ Islam in the 21st century: the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Indonesia.     Zooming in on how these dynamics bear upon the diplomacy surrounding the Gaza conflict, Jason speaks with Nathan Brown; a keen observer of Palestinian politics over the last six decades. They explore how the Palestinian question has traditionally been connected to both struggles over Muslim identity and leadership of the Islamic world. They analyse how the current struggle for Islamic Leadership could actually provide opportunities to forge solutions to the Israel-Gaza conflict.  At the end of the show, Jason and Alex return to the question of what it means that the UK has become ever more reliant on money from the Gulf States, and whether that’s taken away any leverage the West may have over these countries in the current conflict.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/struggle-for-global-leadership     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Listen to James M. Dorsey’s podcast, The Turbulent World here   Nathan’s first gloomy premonition, “There Might Be No Day After in Gaza here   And his “Arab Peace Initiative II: How Arab Leadership Could Design a Peace Plan in Israel and Palestine” here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

19 Dec 202347min

In this week’s episode, Jason and Alex are joined by Kurt Volker, former US Ambassador to NATO and former US’s Special Representative to Ukraine. The wide-ranging discussion tries to unpick NATO’s role in our increasingly disordered world. They also examine what makes NATO successful where the UN and other international organizations falter. They discuss both the 2023 NATO summit in Lithuania and the 2023 Tbilisi International Conference, entitled “Defeating Putinism.” They also look forward to next year’s supremely important NATO summit in Washington with bated breath. That moment not only marks 75 years since NATO’s creation, but it ‘should be’ the moment that NATO offers Ukraine concrete steps to membership. Plus: they look at the late Senator John McCain’s legacy and the US’s role in NATO, as the momentous 2024 election approaches.     Alex and Jason Order the Disorder by postulating why Ukraine needs to join NATO as soon as possible – even if the war with Russia is still ongoing.    Twitter: @DisorderShow  Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/nato-and-adversaries     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Previous episode on NATO here   Read Kurt Volker’s NATO assessments here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

12 Dec 202347min

In this bonus episode, Jason discusses his mom’s Thanksgiving stuffing recipe as he is joined by our roving correspondent – David Patrikarakos – who missed Turkey Day in London choosing to go to Ukraine and Gaza instead. The pair ‘drone’ on about the use of Iranian Shahid drones in both conflicts, the similarities and differences in the moral and military calculus in Ukraine as opposed to Gaza, and how today’s easy access to technology means traditionally lesser military powers can achieve a modicum of leveling up with their more 1st world opponents. The pair also try to step away from the current news cycle to debunk some historical misconceptions about both conflicts.    In the Ordering the Disorder segment, the discuss the role of historical narratives and mythmaking, the West’s need to hold the line in the Ukraine, and why there are no easy solutions for the day after the War in Gaza.    Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    More on David’s recent trip to Ukraine here    And his thoughts on the chances of a regional Middle Eastern escalation here   And back to Jason’s solutions, ‘The Road to Middle East Peace Runs Through Doha’ here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

7 Dec 202346min

Disinformation and culture wars are an existential problem for democracies. They foster negative feedback loops: whereby internal divisions inside democracies make us more vulnerable to hostile external actors spewing misinformation, who then exploit those divisions to create more vulnerability to misinformation, culminating in culture wars. These kind of negative feedback loops are another symptom of our era of Global Enduring Disorder.   In this week’s episode, Alex and Jason are joined by Laura Thornton, Senior Vice President for democracy at GMF. They discuss how social media algorithms promote disinformation, culture wars, and a rise in contempt for experts. In the Ordering the Disorder section, they’ll talk about the fight for neutral facts and how we could rethink our electoral systems to strengthen our democracies in the UK and US.   Twitter: @DisorderShow   Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/unregulated-cyberspace   Producer: George McDonagh Exec Producer: Neil Fearn     Show Notes Links    Read Brian Klaas’ article on Trump and Mark Milley here   For more on Laura Thornton’s work visit here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

5 Dec 202346min

Climate change is the perfect example of what happens on a pressing global challenge when no one leads, or even takes responsibility, for a collective action problem – nothing happens, the crisis builds until it becomes seemingly unmanageable/unfixable. Without strong collective action and tough compromises, climate change will get more and more geopolitically intractable making life saving compromises even harder.  In this episode, Fiona Harvey explores the importance coordination mechanisms such as COP summits, while Arthur Snell explores the vulnerability of developing island states, the potential next climate great battleground -- the Arctic -- and the role medium powers such as the UK could play in coordinating climate policy.   Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/nato-and-adversaries     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    For more from Fiona Harvey, visit here    Listen to Arthur Snell’s podcast, Behind The Lines, here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

28 Nov 202346min

In a special Thanksgiving bonus episode of the podcast, Jason is joined by Alessandro Politi, the Director of the NATO Defense College Foundation in Rome. They discuss: Alessandro’s Axis lineage, what role if any NATO has in the Middle East, what Europe’s unique role should be in the Israel-Hamas war (potentially as a counterbalance to America), how global affairs look from Taiwan (where Alessandro just was), and whether the Ukraine-Russia and Israel-Gaza Wars might act as a detonator for larger US and China tensions.  Twitter: @DisorderShow    Website: https://natoandtheglobalenduringdisorder.com/nato-and-adversaries     Producer: George McDonagh  Exec Producer: Neil Fearn    Show Notes Links    Read Alessandro’s writing on China here     More on the NATO Defense College Foundation can be found here     Listen to Jason appearing alongside Gershon Baskin discussing hostage negotiations and scenarios for Post-War Gaza here    For more on what Europe is proposing in the Middle East, read ‘Germany suggests UN take control in Gaza after Israel-Hamas war ends’ here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

23 Nov 202329min