War on the Rocks25 Feb 2014

A Conversation with the Chairman: General Martin E. Dempsey

We sat down with General Martin E. Dempsey in his office to talk strategy, the profession of arms, military compensation reform, and professional military education. Interview Transcript (courtesy Federal News Service, Washington, DC): RYAN EVANS: Hi, this is Ryan Evans with a very special War on the Rocks podcast. I'm here with General Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and I have Jason Fritz, one of our editors at War on the Rocks, also joining us. And we're going to talk about profession of arms, which is, General, a big passion of yours, or one of your central efforts, actually, ever since you were TRADOC commander. How much has your – did your experience joining the post-Vietnam Army in the mid '70s, which sort of went through some similar challenges that we're about to see now, shape your approach to profession of arms? GENERAL MARTIN DEMPSEY: Well, you know, I think you're shaped by the accumulation of your experiences over time. So I entered West Point in 1970, and you know what kind of climate there was in the country in 1970 – not just related to the Vietnam War but related to just a whole bunch of social issues inside the country. So, you know, in that environment, the military had kind of lost its standing with the American people, you know, simply stated. And so even as a very young officer, it occurred to me that if we are to live up to our – and especially as we transition to an all-volunteer force, by the way – it occurred to me that this issue of professionalism would have to become more prominent. And, in fact, in 1998, at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, I studied for a master's degree and took as my thesis that issue. And in that particular treatise, if you will, I came to the conclusion that the single most important value in our long list of professional values was the – was the duty – was the value of duty. By the way, I wasn't the first one to turn that up. You may remember that Robert E. Lee said that duty is the sublimest virtue. So that started me down a path of studying what it means to be a professional. How is it different from simply a job? What is it that we owe ourselves internally? How do we hold ourselves to a higher standard? How do we identify that standard? What are the key leader attributes that define us? And how do we deliver them? And how do we make sure we know we're delivering them? And so that's the context in which I entered TRADOC, did some things there, did a few things as chief of staff of the Army, knowing that after 10 or 12 years of conflict we had gotten sloppy. It's not – I've said this before. It's not that the war caused this misstep, if you will, but rather that the tools that we had at our disposal, whether they were education, oversight, surveys, command climate assessments, fitness reports, mentoring and – you know, mentors and protégés, we had kind of broken – you know that – we had kind of broken some of those relationships because of the pace, and in some cases because of modularity, this notion in the Army, anyway, that you can kind of plug and play with units. Well, you can, actually. They're very fungible. But when you do that, you break the mentor-protégé relationship as you plug and play. So we're looking back now and looking forward as well. That's a long answer, but that's how I came to this conclusion that it was time to take a very close look at this. RYAN EVANS: That's a good answer, actually. And I know Jason, a fellow armor officer, experienced – I don't know if, Jason, you want to comment or question based on what you saw. JASON FRITZ: Yeah, I would agree, particularly on the issues of mentor and protégé issues. I was in the first modularized brigade, 2nd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division, and, you know, we – going through the pains of transitioning to that model and some of the repercussion over the years with them. I was a brigade planner during the surge,

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How America's Special Operators are Preparing for a High-Tech Future

Down in Tampa on the sidelines of SOF Week, Ryan spoke with Lt. Gen. Frank Donovan, vice commander of Special Operations Command, in front of a live audience about how America's special operators are leading the way on the the future of warfare, from great power competition to data and AI — or, how our guest puts it, from the seabed to low earth orbit.

19 Maj 17min

The Risks of the Latest India-Pakistan Crisis

We are sharing a free episode of Thinking the Unthinkable with you all due to fast-moving events between India and Pakistan. This episode features host Ankit Panda and guest Sameer Lalwani discussing the risks involved in a military conflict between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan. This episode was recorded after the April 22 attack in Kashmir that prompted the current round of tensions and before India launched strikes on Pakistan, and digs into the risks in the event of an attack.

7 Maj 40min

The Army's Upcoming Transformation, with Secretary Driscoll and Gen. George

Ryan popped across the Potomac to the Pentagon to speak with Secretary of the Army Daniel Driscoll and Army Chief of Staff Gen. Randy George about the ambitious Army Transformation Initiative. Following a directive from the secretary of defense, the initiative aims to streamline the Army's force structure, cut wasteful spending, and rapidly modernize its capabilities.

6 Maj 36min

Will Russia's War on Ukraine Keep Resisting Trump's Diplomacy?

Michael Kofman and Dara Massicot join Ryan to unpack how the Trump administration's ambitious peace efforts have collided with reality. They dive into how strategic calculations, politics, military conditions, and societal developments have shaped diplomacy, assessing how various pressures and intentions could redefine — or derail — pathways toward ending the war.

5 Maj 40min

Gen. Berger on Leadership in a Turbulent Era

In today's world, turbulence isn't temporary — it's the new normal. In this episode, Gen. (ret.) David Berger, former commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, shares why adaptability, resilience, and grit are not just desirable but essential traits for leaders in an uncertain and unpredictable age. Successful leaders must embrace disruption rather than waiting for stability to return, he tells Ryan. And after offering insights from his career as a Marine officer, including his experience planning and leading Force Design 2030, Gen. Berger shares what life has been like after hanging up the uniform.

1 Maj 24min

The Future of Sweden's Military with Chief of Defense Michael Claesson

Gen. Michael Claesson, Chief of Defense of the Swedish Armed Forces, joined Ryan during a visit to Washington to share how NATO has changed Sweden's armed forces as well as the details of their modernization, consolidation, and expansion efforts — on land, at sea, and in the air. They also discuss the challenges of mobilization in future wars defined by higher technology systems, training, working with industry, and how Sweden has learned from Russia's war against Ukraine. Claesson ends with his views on how he tries to shape Sweden's next generation of most senior military officers.

16 Apr 18min

Not the Last Net Assessment

In this joint episode with the Net Assessment crew, recorded last week on "Liberation Day," Ryan joins Chris, Zack, and Melanie to talk about what's happening in the world as well as the future of Net Assessment, which is moving on to its forever home with the Stimson Center. If you would like to support Net Assessment, please consider donating to this special fund. https://www.stimson.org/support/ We also feature a trailer from a series of panels convened by former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, which you can listen to in full on his podcast, Defending Democracy. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/defending-democracy-with-malcolm-turnbull/id1674095396

11 Apr 27min

A Stroll Through the Indo-Pacific, the Most Important Region in the World

In this episode, we get into what's driving the Indo-Pacific's security dynamics, from China's threats to Taiwan to AUKUS and the Quad to stability (or lack thereof) on the Korean Peninsula to bases in the Philippines. We also touch on how prepared the United States may be to deliver military power in the Indo-Pacific based on forthcoming resourcing decisions by the Trump administration and Congress. Get ready for a smart, insightful conversation you won't want to miss with Lisa Curtis (CNAS), Zack Cooper (AEI), and Dmitri Alperovitch (Silverado). Cooper has a great new book out called Tides of Fortune: The Rise and Decline of Great Militaries (https://a.co/d/cP4OPgU). And so does Alperovitch, who wrote World on the Brink: How America Can Beat China in the Race for the Twenty-First Century (https://a.co/d/eUDRdlF) with Garrett M. Graff.

26 Mars 43min

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