War on the Rocks25 Feb 2014

A Conversation with the Chairman: General Martin E. Dempsey

We sat down with General Martin E. Dempsey in his office to talk strategy, the profession of arms, military compensation reform, and professional military education. Interview Transcript (courtesy Federal News Service, Washington, DC): RYAN EVANS: Hi, this is Ryan Evans with a very special War on the Rocks podcast. I'm here with General Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and I have Jason Fritz, one of our editors at War on the Rocks, also joining us. And we're going to talk about profession of arms, which is, General, a big passion of yours, or one of your central efforts, actually, ever since you were TRADOC commander. How much has your – did your experience joining the post-Vietnam Army in the mid '70s, which sort of went through some similar challenges that we're about to see now, shape your approach to profession of arms? GENERAL MARTIN DEMPSEY: Well, you know, I think you're shaped by the accumulation of your experiences over time. So I entered West Point in 1970, and you know what kind of climate there was in the country in 1970 – not just related to the Vietnam War but related to just a whole bunch of social issues inside the country. So, you know, in that environment, the military had kind of lost its standing with the American people, you know, simply stated. And so even as a very young officer, it occurred to me that if we are to live up to our – and especially as we transition to an all-volunteer force, by the way – it occurred to me that this issue of professionalism would have to become more prominent. And, in fact, in 1998, at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, I studied for a master's degree and took as my thesis that issue. And in that particular treatise, if you will, I came to the conclusion that the single most important value in our long list of professional values was the – was the duty – was the value of duty. By the way, I wasn't the first one to turn that up. You may remember that Robert E. Lee said that duty is the sublimest virtue. So that started me down a path of studying what it means to be a professional. How is it different from simply a job? What is it that we owe ourselves internally? How do we hold ourselves to a higher standard? How do we identify that standard? What are the key leader attributes that define us? And how do we deliver them? And how do we make sure we know we're delivering them? And so that's the context in which I entered TRADOC, did some things there, did a few things as chief of staff of the Army, knowing that after 10 or 12 years of conflict we had gotten sloppy. It's not – I've said this before. It's not that the war caused this misstep, if you will, but rather that the tools that we had at our disposal, whether they were education, oversight, surveys, command climate assessments, fitness reports, mentoring and – you know, mentors and protégés, we had kind of broken – you know that – we had kind of broken some of those relationships because of the pace, and in some cases because of modularity, this notion in the Army, anyway, that you can kind of plug and play with units. Well, you can, actually. They're very fungible. But when you do that, you break the mentor-protégé relationship as you plug and play. So we're looking back now and looking forward as well. That's a long answer, but that's how I came to this conclusion that it was time to take a very close look at this. RYAN EVANS: That's a good answer, actually. And I know Jason, a fellow armor officer, experienced – I don't know if, Jason, you want to comment or question based on what you saw. JASON FRITZ: Yeah, I would agree, particularly on the issues of mentor and protégé issues. I was in the first modularized brigade, 2nd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division, and, you know, we – going through the pains of transitioning to that model and some of the repercussion over the years with them. I was a brigade planner during the surge,

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Can the U.S.-Ukrainian Rift Be Healed?

Last week, a meeting with President Zelensky of Ukraine at the White House exploded into acrimony in front of the cameras. Since then, an era-defining drama has been unfolding across the West as Europe prepares for a world where it might not be backed by U.S. military power. U.S. military aid and at least some intelligence support for Ukraine have also been suspended. What happened? And what happens next? To answer these questions, Ryan was joined by Constanze Stelzenmüller (Brookings), Melinda Haring (Razom), Justin Logan (Cato), and Michael Kofman (Carnegie). The letter referenced by Stelzenmüller can be read here: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_25_684

6 Mars 41min

Lt. Gen. Sklenka on Staying in the Fight

The Marine general and deputy commandant in charge of installations and logistics was kind enough to join Ryan for a wide-ranging conversation on military service, logistics, and so much more. Whether you are a servicemember or someone interested in how the U.S. military will be able to stay in the fight should a war break out in the Indo-Pacific, this episode is a must-listen. This episode was supported by Onebrief.

3 Mars 31min

The Puzzling Diplomacy over Ukraine's Future

Nothing about the war in Ukraine is simple — including the diplomacy, which might be even messier than the battlefield. Michael Kofman, Justin Logan (Cato), and Liana Fix (the Council on Foreign Relations) joined Ryan to help him understand the negotiations underway about Ukraine's fate. From the minerals deal to Zelensky's approach to Trump to the prospects for a European peacekeeping force, they cover it all, and have a few friendly arguments along the way.

28 Feb 37min

"We Stand with Free People" — U.K. Security & Strategy with Tom Tugendhat

Member of U.K. Parliament and military veteran Tom Tugendhat was recently in Washington and was kind enough to join Ryan for a short but weighty conversation. Tugendhat chaired the Foreign Affairs Select Committee between 2017 and 2022 and then served in the previous government as minister of state for security. They discussed his time in government as well as the landscape of threats, including (not surprisingly) Russia — and how the war might best end — as well as China, informed by his recent trip to Taiwan. Please note this episode was recorded before the Munich Security Conference.

17 Feb 20min

Transforming NATO for the Future Fight

Will NATO be able to innovate and adapt before a crisis? Adm. Pierre Vandier popped into War on the Rocks HQ for a most interesting chat about this very question. He serves as Supreme Allied Commander Transformation. A senior leader in the French navy and career fighter pilot, Vandier is responsible for the transformation of NATO's military structures, forces, capabilities, and doctrines. With Ukraine struggling against Russia, technology advancing at a thunderous pace, and the geopolitical landscape shifting, Vandier offers some fascinating, quotable insights.

12 Feb 28min

Assessing Ukraine's Prospects in 2025

Mike Kofman joined Ryan for a wide-ranging conversation on the challenges faced by both Ukraine and Russia this year. They discuss losses on both sides, manpower challenges, the importance of following the discourse in Ukraine, the Russian economy, and whether the Russian pace of operations will clearly slow down. This episode is brought to you by Bedrock Knowledge.

27 Jan 22min

Championing NATO's Digital Transformation

On the sidelines of I/ITSEC in Orlando, we hosted a live podcast recording. Our guest for this very special episode was Maj. Gen. Dominique Luzeaux of France, currently championing NATO's digital transformation. This wide-ranging conversation between Ryan and Maj. Gen. Luzeaux covered training with new technologies, lessons from Ukraine, AI and more. They both also discussed what they learned from the best bosses they ever had. Thanks to Metrea for sponsoring the very special party where we recorded this episode, as well as the terrific audience in Orlando at the Capital Grille.

23 Dec 202417min

Waiting for a Theory of Victory in Ukraine

Mike Kofman and Ryan have a high-level conversation on strategy in this war, or the lack thereof. From Ukraine's mobilization reluctance to the Biden administration's curious approach to sequencing authorities and capabilities, they review what might ultimately cost Ukraine the war. And make no mistake, that is where the war is trending. Ryan also runs an idea by Mike on how the issue of security guarantees might work in the event of a peace settlement, in a way that doesn't involve NATO directly.

4 Dec 202423min

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